Curse

Beat_Go_Stick · May 16, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Funny, I have yet to have any trouble getting a group with my Assassin....maybe being A/Me implies a little skill? I don't know.

Generally, I get into groups without much hassle, nobody interrogates me or confirms I know what I'm doing, and I go through battles without dying by teleporting to the backline with Recall whenever I start taking damage.

Maybe the reason you guys are seeing so much hate is because you are A/W and A/Mo? Those are the classes of Assassins I generally see dropping to the less than useless 60% DP after 6-8 battles...

felinette · May 16, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Well, I play an A/Mo and I've only died 11 times so far. I never afk, drop from groups, or stand around doing nothing. Most of my characters go Mo secondary because I hench a lot, and it's a heck of a lot easier to hench with a hard rez on your skillbar. The only monk skill my sin has on her bar is rebirth. She didn't die once doing Vezunah Square (the other A dropped after racking up 60% DP within the first area of the mission). During that mission, we had only one monk and only one lvl 20 in our group (my sin was lvl 19 at the time). The monk only had to heal me a handful of times. I don't use teleportation at all... if you've got two or three defensive/health generating skills on your bar, it's not necessary. The rare time you are in trouble, kiting away works fine. Before jumping into any battle, I buff and will stay pretty much at full health until I run out to choose my next victim.

Assassins can do a massive amount of damage in a short period of time. The trick is to know when to get out, buff again, and move in. I don't mind that groups aren't picking up A's since I prefer henching, anyway--got used to henching when I was playing a mesmer in Tyria.

Adarklighter · May 16, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

In truth, I think that most people who are discriminating against sins view them as inferior because of the lack of contribution that NPC sins can do in a group. They are, in fact, most likely the first ones to die, inducing a lot of curses from monks who get upset when not even a 1/4 sec cast-time heal is fast enough.

What people have to understand, however, that this is in no way a good reflection of what really good sins can do (I have witnessed some myself). I've created a new sin char recently, and I gotta say, it's a class with a steep learning curve. I died a few times before I can figure out for sure a basic combo that can be effective.

I say give it some time before a flurry of good sins starts to surface.

bart · May 17, 2006, 01:38 AM // 01:38

I'm getting discriminated left and right just cos i have an A in front of my A/R.

I'm a critical barrager ffs!!! I use a bow!! You won't see me in front of u!!!

Blkout · May 17, 2006, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

HOW TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NOOB ASSASSIN AND A PRO ONE

Ask these simple questions and add up points and you'll have a good idea of if you have a good assassin or a bad one.

Do you have any Tele skills, if so what are they?

4 points: Whats a Tele Skill?
3 points: No
2 points: yes death's charge
1 Point: Yes Recall/Aura of Displacement and/not Death's Charge

Do you have any Defensive/running stances?

4 points: What are those?
3 points: No
2 points: Yes I have one thats only lasts a little bit OR no I just use tele skills
1 points: Yes I have a few good ones

What do you do to attack the monsters?

4 points: I just run in and try and kill them
3 points: I have no stances and stuff but I run away when I'm in trouble
2 points: I run in and use my stances when I'm attacked
1 points: I teleport in kill my target and teleport back before the ememies can attack me.

if you scored

10+ Kick this noob and post in on guru so we all know who the noob is (I don't mean the last part)
7-9 Most likely a noob don't accept in high areas
5-6 This person know what he is doing accepting isn't much of a risk
3-4 THIS IS A MOST LIKELY PRO ACCEPT HIM AND BOOT THE WAMMO!!

Sorry bud, but your scorecard doesn't appply to my Assassin since I use a bow. I am not in the middle of the fight so I don't use most of the skills you claim an Assassin needs. There are other build besides a dagger Assassin and it doesn't make you a noob not use the skills you listed. I have been EXTREMELY effective as a bow Assassin. Poison and bleeding at the same time is very nice. And with Shadow Refuge and Troll Unguent, I rarely ever need a monk to heal me, often I'm the last one standing in my PUG.

Katari · May 17, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blkout

Sorry bud, but your scorecard doesn't appply to my Assassin since I use a bow. I am not in the middle of the fight so I don't use most of the skills you claim an Assassin needs. There are other build besides a dagger Assassin and it doesn't make you a noob not use the skills you listed. I have been EXTREMELY effective as a bow Assassin. Poison and bleeding at the same time is very nice. And with Shadow Refuge and Troll Unguent, I rarely ever need a monk to heal me, often I'm the last one standing in my PUG.

The best sin I've ever seen, in terms of staying alive, was a barrage-sin. I didn't even notice that she was using a bow untill I realised how little damage she was taking, and watched her to see just why that was.

I have yet to see a PvE situation that would really compell me to take a melee sin over soe other class, and yes, the vast majority of (melee) sins I end up with die more often than anyone else, and quickly rack up some impresive DP. The average PUG sin reminds me of a 'typical' idiot wammo, only with less armor, and an impressive ability to over-extend thanks to teleportation spells.

Sure, they can be played right. Sure they can be an asssit to a team. But even if most forum-goers are kickass sins, does that mean most PUG sins are fantastic? No. So when I see an abrupt turn-around in the PUG population of sins (which this forum does not represent very well) then I'll start inviting them to groups.

kinetik · May 17, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31

my assassin has been stuck at arborstone for quite a while now..so i switched to playing my other chars. hes stuck simply because noone lets him in his/her group and when they do its usually 'random' groups. like the guy making the group is clueless and just invites everything around him which usually means the group as a whole sucks as it isnt balanced out properly.

i like to think im a decent assassin and i disagree with the whole interview thing. yes, someone who doesnt even know what those skills are is obviously retarded but not having teleports doesnt automatically make you a noob. i leave the tanking to the warriors and most of the time i actually stay back with the casters to protect them from anything that comes their way.

i think the biggest weakness of an assassin is that it doesnt seem to have ANY skills that benefit the entire party. sure you can stack conditions and all on a mob but it doesnt have any buffs whatsoever except for personal use.

so it can do a fair amount of damage in a short time but it cant take a beating at all. Then theres the range on teleports that, in my opinion, is way too short to really be usefull.

gnugeek · May 17, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyismyname

i really dont know if this has been discussed already, but im seriously getting sick and tired of it. i was in arborstone today looking for some group that was actually halfway decent, and unfortunately, im an assassin primary....

I play a W/A, and a friend of mine and questing partner plays A/W. I love teaming up with him. As long as he assists off of me, we do absolutely great together. His survivability is good, and when both of us get on the same target together, nothing lasts for long.

I don't understand all the hate for the assassin class. I have an A/W I fool around with when I'm not playing my main and I absolutely love him.

Stockholm · May 17, 2006, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

HOW TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NOOB ASSASSIN AND A PRO ONE

How much do an average Pro make a week? Is it paid in game or do they get paid in real money?

M3lk0r · May 17, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Already finished the game with my sin

Only place I had problems getting in was in Raisu palace, but sorted it yesterday with a random pug. Everywhere else if I didnt get a group within the first 5 mins, I henched it.

Maybe its just that I've spent 500 odd hours on my ranger, mostly in the holy trinity days where only monks, wars and eles could get into groups. Necro is the new 2nd ele now and some groups recognize barrage rangers, but its still much the same for mesmers :-/

Most groups I have been in usualy get 2 assassins max. Once when I was the group leader and I accepted a 3rd sin, our only monk got angry and demands I kick him, I kick the monk instead and we ended up henching it while he got into another "perfect" group.

Fellow assassins, the only advice I can give you is to not really care about what others think of you or what and how you should play. Play like you want to and dont expect others to play like you want them to.

Banebow · May 17, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

No one has determined a sweeping generalization for the assassin yet. For instance, when you invite a warrior to your group you probably want a tank. When you take a mesmer you are probably looking for shutdown, and when you take an elementalist you probably want AoE effects (all of the classes can do many things, these are just the general expectations).

But what do people expect when they invite an assassin? Ritualists where easy for the general PuG to figure out - they spam spirits. The PuG probably won't even ask if you have any spirits, but you'll get into a group because they have an easy role to put you into (nuker, healer, tank etc).

Yet you don't see assassins getting random invites all that often. In the PuG mindset, what exactly is the assassin going to do? Well, he is the only melee class besides warrior right? That means he is a tank. Then the PuG sees the assassin either die all the time as he tries to tank, or he sees the assassin running in and out of combat. So he isn't a tank. Is he a nuker? No. Shutdown? Not really. Without a cookie cutter defined setup, random player #17642 doesn't know what to take you for.

I ended up doing the game (barring imperial sanctum) with henchmen on my assassin. Not like pugs are worth all that much anyway

GranDeWun · May 17, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Normally, henching to avoid the problem of getting a PUG will work fine. Unfortunately, Arborstone seems almost impossible to hench because the AI can't handle the collapse zones.

Silent Kitty · May 17, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Lemme see; If I was a smart player, needing to do a very difficult mission, I would think twice taking an assassin over a nuker or wammo. Most environments are very caster heavy. Which means that there are targets enough for the assassin, but s/he will not be able to take them all out. Assassins can't tank, so what else? Nothing beats a good tank with the backup of a few nukers. Send in the tank to the mob, and than nuke everything away that surrounds him. I still haven't found a mission where an assassin is very much needed. The wammo just tanks into the mob, and let our own casters do their jobs.
An assassin is only really needed when mobs have a healer or other caster way back on the rear. I haven't seen that yet. An assassin can't take out bosses, unless they are already on 10% health or less.
Try to tank with your assa and your combos get screwed up by evades and blocks. You'll be nothing but a little kid with a butter knife.

Sure, I take the assassin in my party, but only because I like the profession. And the fact that an assassin is a two-hit kill, so I don't have to heal her/him, unlike the wammo who doesn't know how to draw.

lightblade · May 17, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Don't need to worry too much about it...remember the mesmer discrimination at the beginning of Prophacies? It'll work out

Silent Kitty · May 17, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Don't need to worry too much about it...remember the mesmer discrimination at the beginning of Prophacies? It'll work out

I really like to see a good assassin in pve action. Most mobs have no target for an assa. Have you tried a mob of 5 or 6 ettins, the Avicara mobs, the spiders or these crawler thingies? You are dead in about 3 hits, while they often block or evade what you are doing. The Guildwars pve environment is not made for assassins. That is all there is to it. You aren't even able to divert attention away from your healer, though you have the same health, and armour. :P

I am not worried, just dissapointed. I like to play my assassin, but I constantly find way to many targets. Teleporting in, to take out an healer, doesn't cut it. Last time I used Recall, I took half the mob with me

I had recalled on our healer, because s/he was most of the time on a save distance. 15 minutes later they were still flaming at me

troyismyname · May 18, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

wow, i really didn't think that i'd get this many responses with this and thought that i'd get flamed at for complaining but i would sincerely like to thank all that replied and am very intrigued by both sides of the story; anyhow...

i'm not posting this and looking at it totally one sided, i can understand how hard it is when some retard keeps dying, and you keep ressing/ or u dont keep ressing and then they cuss at you, w/e.

any and probably all assassins who do all those negative things that were stated, and all the stupid things for that matter should probably not play the class or have not learned. anyway....

what else is there? ummmmz oh yea i forgot to mention i actually beat arborstone with some guildies so it was pretty chill

edit: is sunjiang before or after arborstone >_< x_X o_O LoL...

ANECDOTE TIME SUNJIANG DISTRICT more discrimination LOL

i tried to join a group, or a couple and got denied, or when i got in a group the leader kicked me and went for talon silverwing lol at that guy.... i thought id start my own group and

TADA

assassin leader... amazing lol, i had a pretty interesting group:

sin, warrior, ranger, rit, sin, mo, mo, warrior

2 assassins omg theyre gunna die... lol well i barked some commands at the monks ("hold the 2 items and let em charge up b4 using them) and told the other sin to back the hell up and let the 2 wars take aggro, etc. omgawdzors group is gunna die!!! no nuker or ss or mm... pfft we didnt need one

in fact, i had 7/8, and i was asking this one mm to join my group and he said we had 2 too many sins in our group.... lol theres 2 and thats too many, i got mad and asked the guy why he didnt just send a petition to anet to remove the sin class.... no response (LOL) /end discrimination

anecdote cont'd (and ended)

anyway that group that i lead beat sunjiang with master's completion, just thought id add this little story to show that maybe 1 or 2 assassins are actually useful, and maybe... just possibly, if the group leader does what he/she is probably supposed to be doing... AHEM... leading the group and not just bitchin' about the crappy players, something might actually get done...

~~~reading over post to make sure that it makes sense~~~
.
..
...
..
. done

special thanks to: dart i forgot what you posted as a reply, but it was a good reply lol

yc525 for the stupid wammos coming to factions and making sins comment

captainccc yupyup sins are divine.... when used in a "way of perfection"... hahaha lol @ me i made a funny....

Guardian of the Light for the questionaire i dont know whether to think you are serious or joking lol, but anyway here are my answers:

question 1: i think i get 1 point, i used recall for arbor and sunjiang, kuz i didnt have aod yet, but it worked out really well, it, as an enchantment on one of the party's monks, covered up any other enchantes he/she had on her, if she had any, and when it wasnt on the monk is was on someone else, like a ranger or a rit, caster, someone in the back, etc.

question 2: unfortunately i dont have defensive stances, so i get 3 points, but this question isnt really viable bcuz my build cant fit one... i actually use dark escape, which may seem like a defensive stance, but is actually my way of getting into the fray, specially since i had recall at the time (now that i have aod though i use it after removing aod to get around somewhere else, or to... run away so i dont die... works well) i think i should get 1 point, or 2 at the most... but anyway thats for someone else to decide...

question 3: i do believe i get 0 points lol, better than 1, because at 1 u have get in kill enemy, and get out... which is kinda wahts supposed to happen, but in a more detailed way to put it: get in, chain attacks, do some hitting, if ur being blocked or evaded, get out, if not then stay in, if u are getting hit, get out, if not stay in, its not just get in kill and get out, theres more to it, i get in do some dmg and if im getting hit, i get the hell out whether or not the target was killed, because 1 i called it so others should, and will attack it too, and 2 it wasnt like a warrior or ranger or something useless to kill first was being targetted, 3 its a team effort the assassin shouldnt be the only one trying to kill some caster or healer while the rest of the party is killing something else.. so yea maybe sin doesnt kill the target, but he/she does dmg and so will the rest of the team.

so yea whats the total? 1 + 3 + 1(bcuz 0 isnt acutally a score) = 5 man im not 3-4, but im pretty sure i'll do pretty well in the missions or w/e i mean cmon question 2... what a rip lol that screwed up my score... but then again maybe dark escape IS counted as a defensive stance and i get 2 points for having 1 defensive stance lol... woot im a "PRO"..... anyways

it seems like my special thanks to guardian of the light took up more than 90% of the section LoL, but yea thats the end of that

~TROY

-->

PS thanks for all posts again, it was definitely a LOOOOooooOOoOOonG read haha...

edit:

oh yea i forgot to ask... is arborstone before or after sunjiang? X_X >_< O_O i forgot maybe its after hahaha

Valerius · May 18, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyismyname

oh yea i forgot to ask... is arborstone before or after sunjiang? X_X >_< O_O i forgot maybe its after hahaha

Arborstone is b4 the Sunjiang District mission

Draxx · May 18, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Ive only read the first part of this thread so excuse me if im going back into covered ground.

But yesh thats the way it is with assasains right now i'm afraid the many have ruined it for the few, and you must expect that and work on way to make these people take you with them by prooving to them you will be a asset, this is not always possible but you will have a much better shot at getting into a group if you advertise yourself in a way that only a GW Veteran knows how.

eventually the nooby Sins will fade out and only harcore classic sins will be grouping, and that will be a wonderous day for all lol.

look on the bright side my primary is a W/Mo and although your sin is currently the bane of the GW universe, most warriors weather they get into groups or not are looked at very cautiousy, and it is easy to tell when one knows what there doing, simply by there armour...

AT LEAST IT USED TO BE!

as much as i like my full suit of armour from cantha. it is now going to be difficult to know in a mission situation if a warrior (OR ANY CLASS) is a good battle hardened player.

its hard but u will just have to be patient for the moment

(OH and yeah mesmers got it in the neck for ages, now people love them... i love my mesmer, and i think the majority or players who play mesmers primary class are some of the most elite in GW, they know what there doing. because mesmer is quite a complex class it takes a long time to discover the builds and learn the way to use them. i expect it is the same with sins.

)

Bloodied Blade · May 18, 2006, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Noobs hate assassins... that's pretty much it. Whammos played assassins and suck majorly with them, so people think we suck. Thus, noobs think we suck (any non-noob would know that a good assassin is amazing to watch in action).

To those of you not wanting to look like the Whammo playing an assassin:

When you do the temple mission out of Sheng Ji, beware of the Ritualist boss... he 2-3 shots people with essence strike + ancestor's rage (including the warriors). He killed our warrior in 1-2 shots and the warrior left...we raised 8-10 minions from his mob and did it much faster without a warrior

easyg · May 19, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

There are a lot of reasons I don't like assassins besides for the reasons mentioned here. I've observed them a lot, particular in PvP.

And what I've noticed, and what a lot of other people have noticed, is that while assassins produce decent damage spikes, they are basically idle a lot of the time. Compare this situation to an ele who should be casting all the time; or to a warrior should be tanking/attacking constantly; or to the barrage ranger who is never not barraging; or to anyone else who should always be attacking/buffing/disabling/ or whatever whenever he has the energy or adrenaline to light up a skill.

Even assassins admit that a good one has got to pick and choose when to attack. But what they don't seem to appreciate is that while the assassin is picking and choosing his spots, he is basically doing nothing to help the group.

I mean would anyone want a healer in your group who spent 30 seconds out of every minute picking and choosing when and whom to heal? Would you want an ele, ranger, whatever who spent half his time in battle weaving around looking for an opening before doing anything? Obviously not.